Who do you go to when there's nothing left?

Semiomniscient: Oh hey, I'm goign to try and write a good blog about the Christian view of the afterlife. (Mainly in response to www.laturvey.mindsay.com) Who's one of those "annihilation of the wickedists". At least they make good acknowledgement of the Resurrection.
Bulliondale: sigh
Semiomniscient: But some of the things this guy says just don't jive with Scripture.
Semiomniscient: hehe
Bulliondale: nope.
Semiomniscient: I just want to give a good exposition and rebuttal to such things
Semiomniscient: I need to give it some time though. To make it at least decent.
Bulliondale: hummm...
Semiomniscient: N.T. Wright felt the need to compact his information into a book thicker than the Bible.
Bulliondale: not that that there have been Christian Saints who have believed such stuff
Semiomniscient: Well part of the reason I desire to be in the ministry is to teach those within the Church.
Bulliondale: What do you make of Apocatastasis?
Semiomniscient: Soul Sleep?
Bulliondale: no
Semiomniscient: I dunno what apocatastasis
Bulliondale: the doctrine which teaches that a time will come when all free creatures will share in the grace of salvation; in a special way, the devils and lost souls.
Semiomniscient: no
Bulliondale: "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then the Son also himself shall be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."
Semiomniscient: Yes, but I don't think that "subdual" implies that those enemies of God being subdued receive the Blessings of His Grace.
Bulliondale: Will evil be annihilated?
Semiomniscient: It has to be
Semiomniscient: but punishment is not evil
Semiomniscient: punishment is justice. Justice is good.
Semiomniscient: punishment=good
Bulliondale: spoken like a Calvinist
Semiomniscient: And am I wrong?
Bulliondale: Some of the early doctors of the Church believed in Apocatastasis.
Semiomniscient: doctors as in physicians?
Bulliondale: as in great teachers
Semiomniscient: And there were early church fathers who believed that if they sinned after baptism it was unforgivable.
Semiomniscient: Were they correct?
Bulliondale: well if one falls away then yes.
Semiomniscient: unforgivable? no.
Bulliondale: there is no means to return them to the faith?
Semiomniscient: Simply sinning after you've been baptised Dad. They thought that it was unforgivable. (Some of them thought that.)
Semiomniscient: I'm not talking blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
Bulliondale: you may wish to read the article here:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01599a.htm
Bulliondale: I was talking about Apostasy -not simple sin.
Semiomniscient: the problem with apocatastasis's idea is that sin can be atoned for through one's own suffering.
Bulliondale: we are jumping around
Semiomniscient: It denies the necessity and all suffieciency of Christ's atonement.
Semiomniscient: (you gave me the link)
Semiomniscient: I was reading it
Bulliondale: aye
Bulliondale: just wanted your opinion.
Bulliondale: think about it.
Bulliondale: I like what the article says about God correcting
Semiomniscient: I believe that verse has to do with chastening the chosen people of God.
Bulliondale: the Greek Church teaches Apocatastasis...
Semiomniscient: yeah and we all know you're a closet G.O.
Bulliondale: yup. PC and me
Semiomniscient: PC?
Bulliondale: Prince Charles.
Semiomniscient: ugh...
Bulliondale: ha!
Bulliondale: I think I could be a GO
Semiomniscient: good for you. I have a big problem with their "reverence" of Mary.
Semiomniscient: It's just a bad as the RCC
Bulliondale: I reverence the Blessed Mother too.
Bulliondale: As do most Anglicans
Bulliondale: She is the God Bearer
Bulliondale: Theotokos
Semiomniscient: And for that she is blessed.
Bulliondale: aye.
Semiomniscient: But who is she compared to Christ?
Bulliondale: without her...
Semiomniscient: Christ said that His family were His disciples.
Bulliondale: there would be no Christ
Semiomniscient: Incorrect.
Bulliondale: her obeadence
Bulliondale: is our example
Semiomniscient: Her obedience should be attributed to God.
Bulliondale: of course! EXACTLY!
Semiomniscient: Okay. But Mary in and of herself found favor with God because God was pleased to do so. Just like God was pleased to choose David and Moses and Abraham.
Semiomniscient: OR if you want a female example Rebecca.
Bulliondale: God chooses to save mankind along family lines
Semiomniscient: yes
Semiomniscient: generally
Bulliondale: all those you named were christs in a sense
Bulliondale: I HATE IM!

Bulliondale: no spell check!
Bulliondale: :_(
Semiomniscient: Christ figures (except Rebecca)
Bulliondale: yes and no
Semiomniscient: Rebecca is more of a Marian figure
Bulliondale: they here annoited
Bulliondale: sp?
Semiomniscient: annointed
Bulliondale: where
Bulliondale: yes!
Bulliondale: they where annoited
Semiomniscient: Blessed Mary is a Matriarchal figure.
Bulliondale: yes
Bulliondale: agreed
Semiomniscient: Through her we have Christ, sure. But she is absolutely nothing compared to Christ.
Bulliondale: hummm...
Semiomniscient: She is definitely a e of the faith.
Semiomniscient: Most definitely.
Bulliondale: simplistic Protestant misunderstanding
Bulliondale: sorry but
Semiomniscient: BAH!
Bulliondale: she is much much more than that
Bulliondale: as are all the Saints
Semiomniscient: You Catholics have it all wrong.
Semiomniscient: What did Jesus say of His mother?
Bulliondale: remember the communion of the saints
Semiomniscient: He said "Who is my mother and my brothers?"
Bulliondale: does not seperate us!
Semiomniscient: You're straying
Bulliondale: no
Bulliondale: I'm trying to stay on subject
Semiomniscient: You're getting into communion of the saints
Bulliondale: aye!
Semiomniscient: It's related, but for now a tangent.
Bulliondale: we as Christians have recourse to them and Mary is a saint
Bulliondale: I'd say the chief of the saints
Semiomniscient: No.
Bulliondale: then Peter
Bulliondale: Paul
Bulliondale: Andrew
Semiomniscient: AHEM! JOHN!!!!
Bulliondale: The Beloved disciple
Semiomniscient: I think you have the wrong idea.
Bulliondale: Andrew is the first called of all
Semiomniscient: He who is first, shall be last.
Bulliondale: all are greater than the Baptist
Semiomniscient: ;-)
Semiomniscient: context I know..
Bulliondale: Who is greater than all the old testament saints
Semiomniscient: John the Baptist
Semiomniscient: and the least of the Kingdom of Heaven
Bulliondale: yes that is what I was saying
Semiomniscient: right
Semiomniscient: But listen to yourself...
Bulliondale: I know
Bulliondale: I sound RCC or GO to you.
Semiomniscient: you sound just like the disciples in their ignorance talking about who is first and second and third in the kingdom.
Bulliondale: not my arguement
Semiomniscient: You have NO basis to call Blessed Mary the chief of saints.
Bulliondale: my point is we have access to them to pray for us
Bulliondale: yes I do. Out of her own mouth
Semiomniscient: So you've decided that those who rest in Christ are fully conscious.
Semiomniscient: That's at least nice to see.
Bulliondale: Sure
Semiomniscient: You used to seem shakey on that subject.
Bulliondale: He is the God of the living
Semiomniscient: The living "rest" and "sleep" as well though. (Just playing devil's advocate there).
Semiomniscient: But I think that the RCC and GOC go too far in their reverence of the saints (particularly the Blessed Mother.)
Bulliondale: Well here is what she said of herself:
Bulliondale: My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Semiomniscient: The RCC present flower "offerings" to statues of her. That smacks of idolotry 101.
Bulliondale: yes, something like that isn't really good
Bulliondale: I like icons, not too into statues
Semiomniscient: and the magnificant doesn't imply any of what you said of Mary. It sounds like a Psalm that David or Solomon could have written!
Semiomniscient: Icons are images too!
Bulliondale: so?
Semiomniscient: Well they all are dangerous business as "worship aids"
Bulliondale: Nonsense
Semiomniscient: It's really to make such images.
Bulliondale: no it isn't
Semiomniscient: Now you sound like a Reform Jew...
Bulliondale: gheesh, it isn't images of God the Father
Semiomniscient: the 10 suggestion.
Semiomniscient: God is One
Semiomniscient: That's what the Holy Trinity means!
Bulliondale: no, He is Triune
Semiomniscient: AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Semiomniscient: GOD IS ONE
Bulliondale: Jesus came in the flesh
Semiomniscient: And the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ bodily.
Bulliondale: he is human
Semiomniscient: and fully God.
Bulliondale: yes
Bulliondale: the dual nature of Christ
Semiomniscient: hypostatic union
Bulliondale: so is art ok?
Semiomniscient: So if you make a picture of Him are you simply making the man part? You can't seperate the God from the Man in Christ.
Semiomniscient: Art is okay.
Semiomniscient: But depicting God?
Semiomniscient: I'll even grant that we're not under obligation to follow the law anymore.
Semiomniscient: But whenever it is used as a worship aid it's exactly what God has always .
Bulliondale: All I know is Icons are a great blessing to me
Semiomniscient: He cannot be properly depicted.
Bulliondale: huh?
Semiomniscient: You cannot properly depict God in art. You will never come anywhere close to doing Him any sort of artistic justice. So even from the artist's point of view, it would be improper (and ultimately pretentious) to attempt to depict Him.
Bulliondale: I agree.
Bulliondale: what about Jesus the man?
Semiomniscient: I understand that icons are supposed to be "windows into Heaven".
Semiomniscient: Jesus was God as well
Bulliondale: http://touregypt.net/featurestories/catherines2-1.htm
Semiomniscient: you taught me well that the man and God of Christ cannot and never can be seperated.
Bulliondale: no but what we see is the man
Semiomniscient: I actually know a guy who looks remarkably like that... cept with curly hair.
Bulliondale: this is interesting:
http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/redtransparency.htm
http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pantocrator.htm
Bulliondale: yes, I once saw a dude wlking down the street dressed in robes and looked just like this scary!
Semiomniscient: The shroud thing is interesting.
Bulliondale: un huh
Semiomniscient: But I'm still unsure as to the shroud's authenticity.
Bulliondale: strange huh?
Semiomniscient: cheek bones on the shroud are higher.
Bulliondale: I have to turn in.
Bulliondale: I'm pooped
Semiomniscient: mmk
Semiomniscient: I'll talk to you later.
Bulliondale: night!
Semiomniscient: Love you Dad.
Semiomniscient: Goodnight.
Bulliondale: love you too!
Semiomniscient: I should post this
Semiomniscient: on mindsya
Semiomniscient: haha
Bulliondale: :-)